Filament Runout triggers, even filament is available

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19 comments

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    Bastian Pawlik

    Hey there,

    to be honest, after two month after posting my issue and trying to be as detailed as possible, I was expecting at least some reactions (like maybe from Jonny Yeu who was always so communicative in the past).

    Right now my P2 is nothing more than a quite expensive paperweight :-/

    Regards,

    Basti

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    Jonny Yeu

    Hi Bastian, my apologies about missing this thread. There's a few questions I'd like to ask:

    • What are you runout settings on your Palette screen?
    • Could you check the wiring of the switches by following the steps here: http://mm3d.co/p2replace-switch
    • Have you tried to re-flash the firmware lately?

    This seems to be an issue with the switch connection or the firmware, and once we receive information from the questions above, we'll know how to proceed. Once again, apologies for missing your initial question.

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    Redemptioner1

    @Bastian

    This is common problem with the switches, Johnny will try to convince you "many people have not issues with the switches", which clearly means most people do have issues. What you need is the fixed switches found in the so called "upgrade" kit. Mosaic refuses to supply these parts to existing customers who are having ongoing issues with these faulty parts without paying the additional $100-125 for the kit to fix the problems. 

    The problem you are having is due to the switches being mounted too far out on their PCB board and the leaver being too thin, the filament can slip past the edge of the switch allowing the lever on the switch to move back to the open (no filament detected) position as the filament slides over the top/bottom of the lever instead of along its edge. The switches in the "upgrade" kit address this issue by moving them back slightly on the PCB (less sticking out) and using a thicker version of the lever. 

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    Jonny Yeu

    To clarify, the filament switches are the same in the S Upgrade kit as with non-S units. 

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    Redemptioner1

    Well let's actually clarify that further Jonny, because your post is misleading as per usual.

     

    The switches have the same part number as previously, they are however mounted to the board in a different location and interact with the filament differently as a result. SO, if you read Jonny's post it suggest there is no difference in the switches and the "upgrade" switch won't fix the issue which is deliberately misleading if not fraudulent. The fact of the matter is the "upgraded" switch was made specifically to address the issues @Bastain is having, if the old style switch is used to replace the faulty one the same issue will occur again, just a matter of time. According to Johnny, you will be sent the old style switch as a replacement warranty item if you did not purchase the Palette S versions

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    Jonny Yeu

    Apologies if you were misinformed, Redenptioner1, but only the homing switch was changed to be mounted differently. The filament switches have only been updated to contain white LEDs: https://www.mosaicmfg.com/blogs/news/bring-the-latest-mosaic-technology-to-your-palette-2-p2s-and-p2s-pro-upgrade-packages

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    Bastian Pawlik

    Hey there.

    Sorry, due to a move I wasn't able to test you suggestions earlier, Jonny Yeu.

     

    To answer your questions:

    • What are you runout settings on your Palette screen?
      -> Splice to next drive
    • Could you check the wiring of the switches by following the steps here: http://mm3d.co/p2replace-switch
      -> I checked the Connection, and everything is plugged in correctly. Also the switch status under "Settings" -> "About" displays the correct status whenever I put in/pull out the filament
    • Have you tried to re-flash the firmware lately?
      -> I reflashed to the most recent version 9.0.9

    Unfortunately this didn't help. I enabled the endurance mode and tried to do a test print. But even during the "Waiting for Palette to make filament" process the "Runout-detection" kicks in and stops the print (even before the first splice happens).

    The comments from  Redemptioner1 seems to be reasonable, although I wasn't able to enforce the error manually.

    Don't get me wrong, I really like the P2 and would love to do more awesome stuff with this. But since a few months I'm no longer able to make use out of it.

    BR,

    Basti

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    Jonny Yeu

    Hi Basti, thanks for this information. Let's have your unit sent back to our offices and we'll take a look to see what's causing these issues. If we're unable to repair the unit, we'll have a new replacement unit sent immediately. I have an address on file that I can use to send the return documents to, but please send me an e-mail (jonny@mosaicmfg.com) to confirm if this would be the appropriate address to use.

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    Kurt Skauen

    "Apologies if you were misinformed, Redenptioner1, but only the homing switch was changed to be mounted differently. The filament switches have only been updated to contain white LEDs"

    The dishonesty have no end in you does it? The relevant section on the page you linked to has been entirely rewritten since it was originally posted. I too was properly fooled into thinking this was a change for all the switches. I'v seen enough of how to the core dishonest Mosaic is by now that I usually save any statements locally so I can see how your bait and switch operations are panning out. But unfortunately I didn't think of doing it this time. But I remember thinking "smoke screening, smoke screening, smoke screening" while reading that section as the first good portion of it was only talking about aesthetics. Hence my " But I got a good laugh when they started the sensor upgraded section talking about aesthetics" comment on Facebook.

    Linking to the modified version in the context you did here is really cringe worthy.

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    Jonny Yeu

    Hi Kurt, as far as I know, that blog post was published on Nov 4, 2019 (day of the S launch) and there have been no edits on the article. 

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    Kurt Skauen

    I did originally read this presentation on Nov 4th. I usually do a lot of research before making any statements, but I admit that I did not do that this time. I was very busy on the 4th, and I'm still very busy now. So I can not with a good consciousness say that there is no possibility that I miss-read the post, or that my memory are simply playing me a trick. If the post has not been updated since it was first posted  I'm clearly wrong in my above statement regarding the section being entirely rewritten. And I apologies for that. Most all other statements I have made have been deeply researched, demonstrated and backed up with data and evidence though. So I still stand behind my general assessment of Mosaic's honesty.

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    Nicholas Snyder

    https://youtu.be/JfXNTzasoUY?t=279

     

    Jonny Yeu, if you click the link I just posted its a video from 3D Printing Nerd that was a paid advertisement from you guys.   He specifically mentions better switch placement to make better contact with the filament while changing out the filament switches.   

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    Kurt Skauen

    Oh, there is no doubt they wanted us to believe they had improved them. Pretty much all marketing from Mosaic is false, fraudulent, and flat out lying. So of course they are trying to inflate the importance of this bugfix package as well. Lying to make things look better than it really is seems to be very deeply ingrained in the fabric of Mosaic. And they seems to be getting away with it just fine. So why stop now? I unsubscribed from 3D Printing Nerd a long time ago when I realized that he was willing to propagate Mosaics lies for money.

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    Nicholas Snyder

    I'm pretty happy with my Palette2, both of them.   I'm not trying to join in on the hate thats happening on this forum lately.   

     

    I did check all of the other release videos and none of them mention that the filament switches have been improved.  

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    Kurt Skauen

    That is fine. As long as you accept the limits that it have, you can have good luck with it. But I'm still pretty pissed off about how they lie about everything and always try to dodge it when design flaws are brought up. Chris Labelle's behavior on this forum is so outrageous that I'm shaking in anger. That he have the nerve to say what he does when he no doubt must realize himself how fraudulent and false their marketing is shocks me. Most of the design flaws and lying have been thoroughly documented by me and others.

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    Jonny Yeu

    Thanks for sharing, Nicholas, and we're glad to hear that you're happy with your Palette 2 units. We do apologize for the confusion as the information in the 3D Printing Nerd video is correct and would apply to the homing switch. The timing of his explanation while showing the filament switches can definitely be seen as implying that these switches were changed as well. In the future, we'll be more careful when working with partners to avoid this sort of confusion.

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    Kurt Skauen

    So Jonny.

    Turns out my memory was not playing tricks on my after all. The link you pasted here to "clear up the confusion" was NOT THE ONE LINKED TO IN THE EMAIL YOU SENT OUT Nov, 4th!

    Turns out you have two blog posts. One extremely full of nonsense crafted to make it looks like a lot more have happened than what actually is the case. That is the one you linked in the email, and the one I had read.

    Then it is the one you linked to here that have slightly less nonsense. But it is still an awful lot of text to convince you victims^h^h^h^h^h^h^h customers to shell out another $100+ to change the LED colors, increase the speed with ~2% (10% increase with the new core, minus 7.7% for "endurance mode"), better drive arms, and a fix for the defective design that caused the homing switch to break (but no fix for the defects that cause the other switches to fail, and no fix for the defect that cause a filament jam in multi-spool mode).

    The blog post linked to from the email said this about the sensors:

    "Updated Filament Sensors

    Design & visual appearance is an incredibly important aspects of our product line, and while we were making changes to the functional aspects of Palette 2/2 Pro we wanted to give it a bit of an aesthetic update as well.

    With this in mind, we made a small change to update the internal face of your Palette 2, upgrading all of the LED’s on the filament sensors to white.

    Additionally, we made a modification to the placement of the physical switch on the board, helping prolong the life of the sensor.

    This gives a fresh and new look to the inside of your product, especially important since we’ve been told many of our customers run their Palette 2 and 2 Pro’s with the lids off."

     

    "...upgrading all of the LED’s on the filament sensors to white. Additionally, we made a modification to the placement of the physical switch on the board, helping prolong the life of the sensor..."

    How did you expect this to be interpreted in any other way than that all the filament sensor switches had been modified?

    I think you should be careful with a lot more than your work with partners. I think you should work hard on cleaning up your own act first. And when I say "you" I don't necessarily mean you personally Jonny, but Mosaic as a company. Because to me the way Mosaic acts now and has acted for longer than I have been a customer looks extremely fraudulent and dishonest. You are basically taking every opportunity found to mislead your customers. And every time you are confronted with the BS you start trowing more BS around to dodge it.

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    Jonny Yeu

    Hi Kurt, this blog post was posted on the same day as the one I had shared previously (Nov 4) and it does contain an error as it should note that the placement of the homing switch has been modified. I'll place an edit on this blog post.

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    Kurt Skauen

    Blowing it off like a honest mistake could have worked if Mosaic didn't have such a long history of deceiving it's customers. But it is good that you are going to change it I guess...

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