Missing Layers

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88 comments

  • Avatar
    Adalyn O

    Hi Ramon,

    Sorry to see that you experienced this! Can you confirm that you can print in single color from the same S3D profile without seeing these missing layers?

    Can you please send the following to support@mosaicmfg.com?

    • G-Code file
    • S3D profile (.fff)
    • Chroma profile (Profiles > Printer Profiles > Export)

    Thank you!

  • Avatar
    Adalyn O

    Hi Ramon,

    Please disregard my previous post. These may be incorrect layer transitions as opposed to gaps. Since the other filament used on the same layer is white, it just may not be appearing clearly in the model.

    We recently released a firmware update that should help resolve this issue you are seeing. I would also try slowing down your print speed to help Palette detect pings better.




  • Avatar
    Ramon Schweizer

    Hi Adalyn

    Sorry for my late reply.
    I saw the new FW and will test it tonight.

    Do you need the G-Code, S3D profile, Chroma profile anyway? So I can send it also tonight.

    I'm currently printing with 80mm/sec. and outlines with 50% of it.
    The pings were quet good all between 98.80% and 100.20%

    One thing I remember: I set the "use infill and support for transiotion" option, maybe there might be a issue?
    Another thing: I set a variable transition for bright colors to 140mm and dark colors to 90mm

    Maybe one of these settings causes this issue?

    But the multicolor parrot I printed, I'm almost 100% sure I printed it with 130mm transition length for all brightness gradually.

  • Avatar
    Adalyn O

    Hi Ramon, thanks for the added information!

    I would say, try changing your maximum transition length to 140mm and change for minimum to 90mm. Your minimum transition length is used for colors indicated as 'weak,' and your maximum transition length is used for colors selected as 'strong.' A greater transition length means that it will purge more to clear the nozzle more thoroughly before moving on to the next color. You can read more here: mm3d.co/variable-transition

  • Avatar
    Ramon Schweizer

    After upgrading to the newest firmware it seems to be fixed.

    To keep it simple I tried it with just 2 colors, that is fine now.

    Next test is with 4 colors, but I guess it will work as well.

    The set the same print speed as before, so it wasn't that obviously

  • Avatar
    Ramon Schweizer

    I was happy too soon ...

    I will print the same no again in just black

    Come back later again

     

  • Avatar
    Ramon Schweizer

    So, same Gcode without Palette (Chroma):

    No scarf.

     

  • Avatar
    Kurt Skauen

    I printed what appear to be the exact same penguin but at about half the size (on a CR-10S with a TitanAero) and got some very similar artifacts. I have one 2-3mm gap just behind the right foot (at a height about half the foot up) and then perfect until just after the transition tower ended (i.e. when it was printing the top with only one color). There I got a few 3-5mm gaps and two gaps of about a quarter of the circumference of the head.

    Since the area where it got the upper artifacts are after the end of the filament had left the palette 2 it can not be due to any tug-of-war between them like what happens when it run out of buffered filament during a splice. Either my printer screwed up all by itself or the g-code fed to it either have the path or the extrusion amount being modified in a bad way.

    Since I never see this kind of failure in normal prints, and since there now is multiple instances of this happening when using the palette, the latter sounds most plausible.

  • Avatar
    Ramon Schweizer

    Hmm, very interesting, I'm not seeing ghosts :-)

    I also had this issue with the 5 color parrot. But only when do model is middle or big sized. Small prints went out well.

    So the struggeling theorie is not that bad. Then printed with the SD or Canvas-Hub, with Pallete and just ONE SINGLE colore get well, also direct printing same g-code without Palette are good as well.

    This behaviour I recogniced not from the beginning (after fresh bought the Palette). Maybe there is a firmware issue with the self-mesuring (PONG's)?

  • Avatar
    Ramon Schweizer

    Has anyone any new idea?

  • Avatar
    Manmeet S

    Hey Ramon! I noticed from previous posts that you were printing at 80 mm/sec. I understand that you print the outlines at 50% of this speed however I think what might be happening is that your Palette 2 may have a moment where it is unable to keep up with your print speed and the buffer momentarily runs out. This leads to a brief moment of under extrusion because your extruder has nothing to feed. I would ask that you try slowing down the print with reference to this http://mm3d.co/speed. Please let me know if this helps.

  • Avatar
    Kurt Skauen

    To me this happens at any speed. Everything is full of tiny scores everywhere totally ruining the print quality. I don't have time to research this properly now, so I have not for example tried to print the same models without the palette to verify that nothing bad has happened to my printer. But the way it is right now, the print quality when printing with the palette is really bad compared to what I'm used to. To the point that if this is really caused by the palette and can not be fixed the palette is entirely worthless to me.

    In addition to the scores where it looks like it just quit extruding for a little bit, the surface is very uneven as if the extrusion rate fluctuate a lot. I'm used to see smooth surfaces. I have noticed that the extruders in the palette dig in rather hard making the filament look like a timing belt when it comes out. I'm really hoping that this is not the reason for the horrible print quality since that would probably be hard to fix, and would render the whole thing useless.

    Since Ramon say that this didn't happen in the past I have a small hope that it is software related and not hardware. But if it is, I believe it must be something to do with Chroma/Canvas, or the octoprint plugins messing up the gcode. I see this artifacts even in the part being printed after the end of the filament have left the palette, so it can not be the palette tugging on it that cause this.

  • Avatar
    Ramon Schweizer

    Ahhm, I don't get it. In the link you sent me Manmeet, you're talking about 90mm/sec + 20% for Palette2Pro, this I have. So, why have I to reduce the print speed?

    Especially I never have seen a buffer run out in Palette, during the hole print, the buffer was satisfing loaded.

     

  • Avatar
    Ramon Schweizer

    Kurt: did you print with canvas or a 3th party software? Because using the Canvas, my print's are ugly as well, but with S3D the came out quit similar as regular prints

    Because you mentioned, my guess as well goes to the Chroma converter.

  • Avatar
    Kurt Skauen

    I use S3D and Chroma.

  • Avatar
    Ramon Schweizer

    So, no one has a solution for that @Mosaic?

  • Avatar
    Jonny Yeu

    Hi Ramon, we've found that reducing the speed or increasing the transition length helps to avoid these issues. Even though your buffer remains full, increasing the transition length or lowering the speed allows Palette more time to correct itself before this error occurs. 

    We are planning to release a firmware update later this week that addresses these issues, but for the time being, we would recommend the above setting changes to help.

  • Avatar
    Ramon Schweizer

    I did the firmware upgrad and tried to print hour hedgehog from thiniverse.

    I have the same issue again.

    I also lowered the print speed to 40 instead 80. Same again. Is the problem my Palette 2?

    I'll print exact the same model without chroma, without Palette and close up to you again.

    If that works, I'll print it with Palette and Chroma, but only with ONE SINGLE color and if that don't work, it must be a problem of the feeder from Palette 2

    Pictures comming as soon I'll have done the 3 tests again

  • Avatar
    Jonny Yeu

    Hi Ramon, I'm sorry to hear that you're still experiencing these issues even with the new firmware. Could you please share pictures of the hedgehog print, and did you happen to record any pings from this print?

  • Avatar
    Ramon Schweizer

    Hey Jonny

    I slowed the speed down to 40mm/sec. and only used 2 colors with small items (pengus).

    So I also printed those at the same time and it happend again, the 1st of those has a scarf after changing from white to black.

    I don't know what to do elase, lowering speed seems not be the issue.

    Any Idea left?

    I also has to mention, I was printing with canvas hub (your raspi), May that be the issue that something stucks?

    Ping/Pong:

  • Avatar
    Ramon Schweizer

    Now I printed the exact same model, same size and color with online canvas (not via chroma).

    No issues!

    So, might it be chroma itself?

    Unfortunately the print quality is worse in compare with S3D

  • Avatar
    Jonny Yeu

    Hi Ramon, thanks for sharing this information! It's strange that the model works in CANVAS and not Chroma. Could you share your Chroma and CANVAS GCode files with us to examine (support@mosaicmfg.com)?

  • Avatar
    Ramon Schweizer

    Hi Jonny

     

    sorry, I have been in vacation for a long while, so I will send you the infos soon.

  • Avatar
    Ramon Schweizer

    I sent you the files via GoogleDrive for the user (support@mosaicmfg.com)

  • Avatar
    Jonny Yeu

    Thanks Ramon, we'll take a look and get back to you shortly.

  • Avatar
    Ramon Schweizer

    Hi Jonny

    something found?

  • Avatar
    Jonny Yeu

    Hey Ramon, I had sent you an e-mail back on March 21st, did you receive it?

  • Avatar
    Ramon Schweizer

    Hi Jonny

    I haven't got anything. Could you resend it again please?

  • Avatar
    Jonny Yeu

    Yes, of course. I'll resend it shortly.

  • Avatar
    Nathan Toews

    has any conclusion been made on this? i can confirm that it is indeed a bug in chroma 3.1.3 and am wondering when it will be fixed.

    it definitely is implemented after a color is stopped being used in the model. i didn't get a pic of it but the lower missed layer is at the end of the tale flame on this charmander when that color will no longer be used in this print. and the upper one is at the end of the eyes when that color will no longer be used in this print.

    (edit) looking at the pictures of the penguin in this thread it is not related to the last time a color will be used. but you can clearly see that it is related to the end of a color for a period of the print. for example the end of the feet the end of the belly and the end of the nose are all the points that the first post had issues.

    (edit) I should add that it is kinda strange that it didn't happen at the end of the tummy color. so it is possible that its a bug with only specific drives in chroma. or just a fluke that that one worked

    the model is currently printing still but i can see the missed layer from the lower section clearly

    gcode previews courtesy of S3D

    before chroma

    and after chroma

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