Honing Pings

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    Jonny Yeu

    Hey Ed, currently, there's no way to manually change the PV values like with Palette+. However, the more you print with Palette 2, the more it will adjust calibration to reach 100% pings. You can read more about this here: https://www.mosaicmfg.com/blogs/news/palette-2-uses-machine-learning-to-get-better-with-every-print

    I would suggest resetting your Palette to Factory Settings (found under Preferences) and running the calibration print again based on the late transitions in your production print. After this is done, please try another print and rate the print 4-5 starts if it is in calibration. A 4-5 star rating will cause Palette to use the values from this print to adjust the PV value.

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    Ed Williams

    Thank you for the help. I will run through the steps and run a few calibration prints. 

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    Ed Williams

    I ran through those steps and got a great first print

    I gave it a 4 star because of the yellow

     

    I then went to make another one and got 

     

    Just to make sure it wasn't something else I printed it again and go the same result.

     

    Additionally I am unable to start prints back to back. I have to completely shut down the palette before I can start another print. Every time I go to start a "new" print the palette gets stuck on initializing. 

     

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    Jonny Yeu

    Thanks for this information, Ed. It's certainly strange that your first print looked great while your second one was actually worse. Usually, Palette should account for the changes in calibration and fix this issue. There's two things I'd like to ask you to try:

    1) Please re-calibrate Palette (Found under Settings) to re-measure the PPM and SPC. Once this is done, please reset to factory settings and run the calibration print again. This helps to calibrate Palette to your specific filament and may be able to provide you with better calibration values: https://support.mosaicmfg.com/hc/en-us/articles/360011364074-Calibrate-Palette

    2) Try a longer print. If you give Palette more time to figure out how your printer works, it should eventually find the issues and adjust your calibration values accordingly. A print over 15 meters and/or pings should be enough for Palette to learn about the way your printer works. Even if this print does not look perfectly calibrated, rate it 4-5 starts and try your production print afterwards.

     

    Concerning the CANVAS Hub issue, the best practice at this time is to reboot and reconnect between every print. We understand that this is not the best experience and expect to have an update released in the very near future to address this.

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    Ed Williams

    Thank you for the reply. I will design a new four-color design tonight and give it a test after I run through the reset.

    Thanks.

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    Ed Williams

    I made a simple 4 color design in Fusion

    Sliced it in Canvas

     

    Ran though the steps listed above and got this

     

     

    Gave it a 4 star (as requested)

    Printed again and got this

    I gave it a 2 star and will try again. 

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    Ed Williams

    Just ran the third print. No such luck. I am also seeing not enough filament being made on at the end. 

    I will look for advice in the am. 

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    Ed Williams

    So I am taking a step back and going to take it iteratively. I will start with a 2 color print then bring in more colors when I get that working. 

     

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    Ed Williams

    So this is what I got

    I am resetting the palette and running the initial calibration again with just 2 colors

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    Ed Williams

    Would it be better if I opened a ticket? 

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    Jonny Yeu

    Hey Ed, sorry for the delay. Did you happen to have the ping values for any of these prints?

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    Ed Williams

    I went and looked at the pings and saw the first one at 100% then it went all over the place

    93

    96

    105

    98

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    Ed Williams

    Just for testing I ran it in Accessory mode and got this

    While not perfect it was consistent. 

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    Jonny Yeu

    Thanks Ed. I would ask to try another larger print. It looks like your Palette and printer are starting to hone the calibration, and this last print looks to be getting very close. The pings are also looking to be zeroing in on 100%, so I would ask if you could please attempt a larger print (~15 m of filament or so). Even if this larger print is out of calibration, please rate it a 4-5 so that Palette can use this data for future prints.

    We know what you're capable once your Palette is calibrated, so we can't wait to get you all honed in!

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    Ed Williams

    The last print was done with Chroma in Accessory mode. Unless I am mistaken there are no pings during that correct? 

    I ran through that just as a sanity check. I know the machine is capable There is just something amiss with the calibration. 

    On the plus there was an option to select different pining methods available. Should I be trying different pining methods? I have ran through at least a dozen prints with little to no success. 

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    Jonny Yeu

    There will be pings whenever you're completing a calibrated print. With accessory mode, pinging will be similar to how Palette+ would ping (pause and extrusion ping signature). However, Palette 2 can't save a text file that contains the Ping values like Palette+, which means that you'll have to check pings during the print. On the Print Menu, you'll be able to see the last 15 pings.

    If you've found success with the normal pinging method in the past, I would just leave this as is. We know that once your machine is calibrated, it's capable of some excellent prints.

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    Ed Williams

    I have found my resolution. For my printer to ping correctly I have to have the "use movement pauses for pings" selected and use accessory mode. I have also being sticking with Chroma just to weed out any other issues. 

    I have to use accessory mode because when in connected mode the "use movement pauses for pings" seems to be ignored. It looked from my point of view that the pings being registered were false (equivalent to a missed ping on the plus). Only until I had added the pauses did I get good results. I will be working on adding 3 and 4 colors in tomorrow. Then working in Canvas. 

    Do you have a test document template? These are scenarios I could log in a test report. 

     

    The machine learning really does work. It got better and better over time.

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    Ed Williams

    Three colors came out great.

     

    The only issue I see now is the order in which the colors start

     

    Black and white are first. However red (#3) started first. Not a huge deal in the big scheme of things, just an observation. 

     

    I am making the 4 colors now. After I get that I will be going back to Canvas for further testing. 

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    Jonny Yeu

    Thanks for sharing this, Ed! Great to see that you're finding some success with your Palette.

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    Roger M

    Ed, how did your 4-color version print?

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    Ed Williams

     

    The print turned out great. I am going to be working in Canvas then PVA later today. 

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    Roger M

    I hope you will have the same luck in Canvas as you have in Chroma.

    I'm going to switch from Canvas to Chroma right after my current print (which is again failing) finishes.

     

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    Ed Williams



    This is what I got when I used Canvas. The issue has to do with no pings being detected during the entire print. For my configuration, I need to have "use movement pauses for pings" enabled. Even though I did select it in Canvas it doesn't seem to use it. For now, I will be sticking with Chroma until that is enabled. 

     

    Thanks for the help. 

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    Roger M

    I switched to Chroma this morning and noticed that while pinging the head actually moves a few times. Although i used the same settings in Canvas i never noticed this movement while printing. It just pauses. So indeed, i think that although you can set the 'use movement pauses for pings' in Canvas, it doesn't work.

     

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    Jonny Yeu

    Hey Ed, there could be an issue with movement pauses in CANVAS, but this is the first time we've seen this. Could you please send your CANVAS-processed GCode file to us (support@mosaicmfg.com) and we'll examine your file.

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    Korey MacGill

    been struggling myself with calibration, and i just wanna say thanks for this amazing conversation with pictures, actually found the stl Ed designed on thingiverse a little while ago and now this article. i haven't set up my pi yet for canvas hub, and have been using chroma and cura since i can never get canvas to load on my browser for some reason. but i will be also sharing my experiences in this post if that's okay with ya'll, in case it helps future users.

    good to know about the learning, i kept resetting and trying again haha. you live and learn right?

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    Jonny Yeu

    Hey Korey, I'm glad to hear that this conversation helps. Ed has used Palette for a large number of beautiful prints, so he's a great source of information.

    Concerning CANVAS, which browser are you using? CANVAS has been optimized for Chrome, Safari, and Firefox, so if you're using another browser, I'd ask you to try with one of the previously mentioned browsers. 

    Please feel free to share your experience here! We're happy to help, so please don't hesitate to ask any questions.

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    Korey MacGill

    so far it's turned out okay for a 2 color print of the same design with the yin yang. i tried 2 color and got it jammed. i've been having jamming issues.

    and i switched to using motion for detection or whatever that setting it is pings/pongs, and i can see the difference in the prime tower it does that.

     

    but my thing, and i think this might be causing the prints to fail cuz of jamming later on, is that when it returns to the print after the transition tower. it just stops, and the plastic oozes out and forms a big glob. i think after about 10 or so of those it jams up real good.

     

    i'll see if i can get a picture of some of the stuff. but it's late and i'll uplaod tomorrow.

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    Kurt Skauen

    Sounds like Chroma might have forgotten som M104 or M109. Try to search for those in the mcf.gcode file. There should be at least a M109 (set tool temp and wait) in the beginning of the file. When using Cura, I also have a M104 for some reason. But not later in the file. Strip those out if you find them.

    After the last extrusion from an extruder, Cura will attempt to shut it down with a "M104 Tx 0". On my printer if x is anything but 0 it throw an "invalid tool" error and aborts the print. If it i 0, it shuts down the heater and then the extruder a few seconds later when the temperature drop, and then it attempts to finish the print using air.

    To reduce the number of temp-change commands Cura outputs make sure all temperatures for all extruders are the same. Including the "standby temp" which for some reason is not in the same group as the other temp settings.

    I recommend making a Search and Replace post processing script in Cura to eliminate the manual step.

    Go to Extensions->Post Processing->Modify G-Code and add the following:

    Search: "M104 T([0-3]) S0"

    Replace: "; M104 T\1 S0 ; Disabled hotend shutdown"

    Use Regular Expressions: checked

    Thanks to Donovan Meyers for giving that tip here. I just added a bit of regexp to it so it retained the original command in a commented-out state.

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    Korey MacGill

    opened up my gcode in sublime, the only 104/109 commands are in the starting and stopping entries. nothing in between.

     

    do i need to strip out all m104s?

     

    thanks for the help

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